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((DISKUSI)) STROBIST PHOTOGRAPHY.. yukk

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  • ((DISKUSI)) STROBIST PHOTOGRAPHY.. yukk

    apakah strobist itu?
    secara sederhana strobist adalah pemaksimalan penggunaan speedlight/blitz/lampu untuk foto yg baik dari sudut pandang exposure.

    sumber cahaya tambahan digunakan secara off shoe...
    apa itu off shoe? off shoe adalah penggunaan blitz/speedlight yg terlepas dari hotshoe kamera
    dengan off shoe kita bisa meciptakan kreatifitas sumber cahaya

    terdapat beberapa cara menggunakan/mengendalikan blitz secara off shoe:

    1. off shoe cable
    dengan kabel ini metering TTL jalan secara mulus, namun terkendala oleh panjang kabel



    2. wireless trigger
    triger ini pun ada beberapa jenis, ada yg optical/SLAVE, ada yang menggunakan gelombang RADIO

    keuntungan pada cara ini adalah, sekarang murah perangkatnya.. banya merk china yg bagus dan murah, seperti YONG NUO
    kekurangan,ga smua flash bisa ke trigger, dan TTL tidak jalan.
    jika ingin TTL jalan, bisa menggunakan triger yg lebih bagus seperti POCKET WIZARD, atau PIXEL yg harganya sekian juta



    jarak trigger bisa lebih jauh dibandingkan pake kabel.. bisa 10 meter atau lebih dar 25 meter

    pada merk triger yg murah, speed tertinggi rata2 adalah 1/160, ini juga terbatas pada kemampuan kamera yg digunakan (rata2 1/125)

    penggunaan triger:
    terdapat 2 perangkat, yg satu receiver untuk dipasang di blitz sebagai eksekutor, dan 1 lagi triger sebagai kontrol eksekusi pada receiver.



    wireless triger juga dapat ditriger menggunakan BLITZ build in (tergantung kamera)
    bisa juga blitz tanpa menggunakan perangkat tambahan bisa ditriger dari blitz kamera (tergantung kamera dan blitz)



    INI ADALAH BAPAK STROBIST (david hobby)




    ini contoh setup penggunaan konsep strobist





    *snookz, postingan lo gw geser ya.. trims
    Last edited by bhisma adinaya; 26-11-2010, 20:53.
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    ym: dj.snookz isnookz@mac.com ping: snookz

  • #2
    Originally posted by snookz View Post
    oke...

    mungkin dari kita dah sering banget ya make FLASH sebagai Lighting utama dalam sebuah foto...
    mmmm.....
    STROBE FLASH mungkin cukup banyak menguras budget...
    mulai dari harga FLASH & Wireless TRIGERnya

    ada gak sih temen" di sini yang make continuous light buat motret?




    soalnya nih solution cukup menjanjikan...
    terutama buat indoor Photography...

    aku dah coba" buat nyari infonya...
    rata" buat 1set umbrella + Stand + Light = ngabisin CUMA 600rb doang...
    kalo pake Stand + Light + softbox yang 100x60cm = sekitar 800-900rb an...

    lumayan jauh kan di bandingkan pake flash + Triger + Stand + Umbrella/softbox?

    aku dah coba sih, buat motret product & Model
    1 lampu = 105Watt ------> menghasilkan cahaya sekitar 500W lampu biasa
    setting camera:
    ISO400,
    f/2 - 3.2
    S: 1/60

    buat product sih 100% top (bisa pake tripod)...
    tapi buat model yah kurang sih, soalnya speednya kurang cepet, apalagi tanpa tripod, pasti agak shake dia....



    sooo.....
    ada yang pernah coba atau bisa kasi tips / saran?



    untuk continues lightnya dari produk apa bro? apa hasil modif sendiri?
    kalau menurut ane sih jelas lebih irit pake strobe flash (yg third party murah meriah kok) ketimbang continues light kalau dibandingkan keuntungan secara mobilitas (ketimbang beli mobilight) :001_tt2:

    kalau watt yang bro pakai masih jelas outputnya gak bisa ngalahin strobe / continues light yg sebenernya. IMHO
    Last edited by bhisma adinaya; 26-11-2010, 20:26.
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    • #3
      gini snookz, gw ud coba dua2nya..dan gw lbih milih strobist..

      Strobist:
      - mudah dibawa kmn
      - ringan
      - tanpa listrik "PLN" ataupun genset
      - klo hujan bisa dibungkus platik dan tetap bisa digunakan
      - kalau tidak ada fungsi slave/mata kucing kita harus beli triger dan receiver
      - bisa menggunakan speed tinggi (tapi rata2 sync kamera adalah 1/125)

      Continous buatan (bukan yg dengan batre outdoor):
      - lebih murah dr strobist (untuk bulid nya), hanya menggunakan lampu rumahan
      - membutuhkan power dari luar (listrik)
      - konsumsi daya nya lebih besar dr strobist (kcuali dimatikan dan dinyalakan ktika dipakai = tapi resiko lampu putus atau gosong)
      - seringkali merusak dan mengecoh WHITE BALANCE, krn walaupun lampu ad karakterisitik kelvin nya, tapi ktika daya input nya yg dipakai berbeda (naik turun) output nya mengecoh WB kamera --> makanya slalu pake "batre" aki yg sudah ad stabilizer nya
      - krn perlu daya yg besar, berbahaya dekat air karna bisa nyetrum walaupun lampu dibungkus
      - tidak leluasa dalam menggunakan speed tinggi, kecuali menggunakan "BANYAK" lampu agar SANGAT TERANG
      - HARUS menggunakan payung atau softbox, karna bisa terlalu keras atau malah tidak rata penyebarannya

      HARGA (2 lampu):
      - strobist;
      2 stand (@130.000=260.000)
      triger & 2 receiver (yongnuo pt series) = 450.000
      2 yongnuo YN460ii = 840.000
      TOTAL = 1.550.000

      (harga di atas bisa lbih murah dengan membeli triger lain dan blitz lain, bisa beda 200rb)

      tapi bisa untuk semua kbutuhan karna bisa kita sett gear nya kalo sett di kamera ud mentok
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      • #4
        iya sih, kalo buat mobile emang sangat" gak memungkinkan...
        soalnya kmaren aku orientasinya buat mini studio (Product Photography)

        pernah juga kepikiran buat beli Flash merk yongnuo, karena harganya murah....

        tapi karena aku pake EOS 7D (yang udah build-in remote triger)
        jadinya mikir, kalo gak pake Flash Canon, trigernya jadi gak berfungsi maksimal (setting power independent setiap unit lewat camera)...

        so, muncul lah ide buat nyoba continuous ligh ini, tapi ternyata sangat tidak nyaman buat model....

        kalo buat product sih ok" aja...
        heheheh....
        :001_tongue:


        but, thankz masukannya....
        sepertinya untuk model, aku perlu beli flash Canon lagi 2 aja neh...
        fyuuuhhh.....
        kalo untuk product aku stay di continuous light buatan ku...
        :D
        sigpic

        ym: dj.snookz isnookz@mac.com ping: snookz

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        • #5
          Originally posted by snookz View Post
          iya sih, kalo buat mobile emang sangat" gak memungkinkan...
          soalnya kmaren aku orientasinya buat mini studio (Product Photography)

          pernah juga kepikiran buat beli Flash merk yongnuo, karena harganya murah....

          tapi karena aku pake EOS 7D (yang udah build-in remote triger)
          jadinya mikir, kalo gak pake Flash Canon, trigernya jadi gak berfungsi maksimal (setting power independent setiap unit lewat camera)...

          so, muncul lah ide buat nyoba continuous ligh ini, tapi ternyata sangat tidak nyaman buat model....

          kalo buat product sih ok" aja...
          heheheh....
          :001_tongue:


          but, thankz masukannya....
          sepertinya untuk model, aku perlu beli flash Canon lagi 2 aja neh...
          fyuuuhhh.....
          kalo untuk product aku stay di continuous light buatan ku...
          :D
          pakein aj triger biar maksimal..

          gw jg ud nyoba yg built-in, tp lbh enak dan fleksibel pke triger hihihihi




          snookz, klo ke jakarta kita berstrobist ria yuk wkwkwkwkwkwkw
          e-mail: bhismaadinaya(at)bhismaadinaya(dot)com
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          • #6
            Originally posted by bhisma adinaya View Post
            pakein aj triger biar maksimal..

            gw jg ud nyoba yg built-in, tp lbh enak dan fleksibel pke triger hihihihi

            snookz, klo ke jakarta kita berstrobist ria yuk wkwkwkwkwkwkw
            masalahnya kalo pake triger "MURAHAN" gak asik bhis...
            gak bisa Set Manual Flash Power dari camera langsung, alias butuh asisten kalo mau set power setiap flash....

            kalo mau on camera control, minimal pake PocketWizard -----> yang artinya DUIT LAGI :crying:
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            ym: dj.snookz isnookz@mac.com ping: snookz

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            • #7
              Originally posted by snookz View Post
              masalahnya kalo pake triger "MURAHAN" gak asik bhis...
              gak bisa Set Manual Flash Power dari camera langsung, alias butuh asisten kalo mau set power setiap flash....

              kalo mau on camera control, minimal pake PocketWizard -----> yang artinya DUIT LAGI :crying:
              di canon baru ad ya?
              di nikon ud dari jaman kapan tau, D100 tua gw aj ud bisa..


              gini snookz, klo lo ngandalin si commander dari kamera (built in flash)
              cukup banyak kurangnya:
              - lo jd harus slalu fill-in obyeknya karna kna blitz dr depan
              - lo ga bisa smbunyiin blitz lo yg lain di balik2 benda/tertutup
              - jaraknya tergantung GN dari kamera
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              • #8
                Originally posted by bhisma adinaya View Post
                di canon baru ad ya?
                di nikon ud dari jaman kapan tau, D100 tua gw aj ud bisa..


                gini snookz, klo lo ngandalin si commander dari kamera (built in flash)
                cukup banyak kurangnya:
                - lo jd harus slalu fill-in obyeknya karna kna blitz dr depan
                - lo ga bisa smbunyiin blitz lo yg lain di balik2 benda/tertutup
                - jaraknya tergantung GN dari kamera
                - di Canon 7D, Cahaya commander yang keluar dari flash camera gak ketangkep oleh sensor... jadi cuma cahaya dari flash external yang keliatan...

                - yap, kekurangannya cuma ini doang, gak bisa naruh flash di balik tembok/pohon (kalo outdoor), tapi kalo indoor, pasti nyala dia, walopun tempatnya agak sembunyi....


                just info how it's work:

                Below is a collection of frequently asked questions regarding the 7D's new wireless flash control functionality.

                I'll try to update this list with any new frequently asked questions down the road to provide a comprehensive resource for the new wireless flash control feature.

                Please post any additional questions you may have or revisions to the existing answers.

                Last update: 2009/10/16 - V.3 Re-worded to indicate flash always fires.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                1. What is wireless ETTL flash control?

                From the 7D camera manual:
                "The camera's built-in flash can work as a master unit with Canon Speedlites having wireless slave feature and wirelessly trigger the Speedlite to fire".

                In a nutshell, the 7D can control your Canon flashes as well as some Canon compatible 3rd party flashes.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                2. What external flashes can I use?

                Currently, the list of confirmed flashes includes:
                - Canon 580 EX II
                - Canon 580 EX
                - Canon 550 EX
                - Canon 430 EX II
                - Canon 430 EX
                - Canon 420 EX
                - Sigma EF 500 DG Super
                - Sigma EF 530 DG Super

                Flash compatibility is also discussed in this thread:
                http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=760227

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                3. How does it work?

                The built-in flash emits a burst of flashes before the cameras shutter is opened to instruct the remote flashes to fire and to communicate the requested flash ratios and measure flash exposure. When the shutter actually opens, the built-in flash will fire again in one of two modes:

                1) If the built-in flash iss enabled for the actual exposure, it will fire at a predetermined output level to contribute to the exposure.

                2) If the built-in flash is only used to control the external Speedlites, it will fire at a very low power just to finally trigger the external flashes and not to contribute to the final exposure.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                4. I only want the external flashes to fire, but my built-in flash still fires?

                When you set the camera to only control the external Speedlites, the built-in flash will still fire it's pre-flash to communicate with the external Speedlites. After the preflash, the built-in flash will emit a very low power flash when the shutter opens to signal the external flashes to fire. This sync-flash will not contribute to the final exposure (or minimally so).

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                5. I thought the flash control uses IR, why do I see the flash?

                The built-in flash is not capable of only emitting IR light - unlike Canon's ST-E2 flash controller, which uses IR LED's to communicate with the external flashes. The built-in flash emits the full spectrum of light which includes IR light that is received by the slave flashes. The ST-E2 pulses light in the same manner, you just can't see it.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                6. Do I need line of sight to all my flashes?

                Yes, but ...

                The IR receiver of the flashes needs to be able to "see" the flash emitted by the 7D. But that does not necessarily mean that the camera needs to be aimed directly at the flash. In an outdoor setting, you have to point the camera directly at the flash. In an indoor studio or smaller room however, the pre-flash may be reflected by the walls and ceilings however and still reach the flash even without direct line of sight.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                7. Can I use "dumb" optical slaves in combination with this wireless ETTL control feature?

                No. Most regular optical slaves will trigger already when they see the pre-flash from the camera. Some optical slaves that are designed specifically to work with the Canon system and ignore the pre-flash may exist however and can be used.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                8. Does the 7D support wireless high-speed sync?

                No. Unlike the 580 EX II in master mode as well as the ST-E2, the built-in wireless flash control on the 7D cannot enable wireless high-speed sync or 2nd curtain flash.

                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                9. How many flash groups/ratios does the 7D support?

                The built-in wireless flash controls supports three flash groups - A, B and C.
                If we assume the internal flash of the 7D is controlling three external flash groups, and these three groups are independent from each other, and the 7D's own flash also contributes to the illumination, we get a scenario like this:
                1. Internal flash sends short coded flash burst, telling group A slaves to flash their pre-flash.
                2. Group A flashes emit measuring flash.
                3. Camera registers light level from the flashes in group A.
                4. Internal flash sends short coded flash burst, telling group B slaves to flash their pre-flash.
                5. Group B flashes emit measuring flash.
                6. Camera registers light level from the flashes in group B.
                7. Internal flash sends short coded flash burst, telling group C slaves to flash their pre-flash.
                8. Group C flashes emit measuring flash.
                9. Camera registers light level from the flashes in group C.
                10. Internal flash emits metering flash for itself only.
                11. Camera registers light level from internal flash.
                12. Camera computes the required power levels for groups A, B, C and for the internal flash, to suit the settings for flash ratios and such the user has done, in relation to the distance from the flashes to their respective target within the image frame.
                13. Internal flash sends long coded flash burst, to tell groups A, B and C which power level they should have, and that they should get ready to fire as dumb slaves.
                14. Camera sets power level of internal flash.
                15. Camera opens shutter and fire the internal flash synchronized with the shutter. The slaves see the sync flash and fires too.

                Now if the internal flash is not supposed to contribute to the illumination of the image, items 10 and 11 above aren't executed.
                In item 14, the camera will set a power level of about 1/512 of full power. This is low enough to not contribute much to the exposure (typically you'll have to go to ISO 1600, f/2.8 and a pretty short range to see it having any considerable impact), but still powerful enough to hopefully trigger the slaves. It's worth noticing that in this case it's probably enough to trigger one slave, as they are in this case just waiting for any flash to trigger, so the triggering will cascade through the chains of flashes, if they did get the command flash just before this event.

                So the important change above, in items #3 and #4, is that the controlling flash always flashes when the image is taken, but at very low power if it's set not to contribute to the illumination.

                Some technical notes:
                I don't know for sure where in the sequence items #10 and #11 happen, since Canon hasn't revealed that anywhere I've seen. But it doesn't matter. It must happen somewhere, even if it could be the first thing that happens, and the result is the same.
                The coded bursts are two bytes for the short ones, five for the long ones.
                If you use other settings than A:B C, the sequence is modified. When using A:B, for example, the C group is never asked to do anything.
                I've never looked closely at any ST-E2, but I'm under the impression that it does not use IR LED, but a normal flash tube, just with an IR filter in front of it. Don't know for sure, though.
                If you use a 580 EX II as a master, but tell it not to be included itself in the image, the trigger flash will be emitted with about 1/1024 of full power. The ratio is lower than for the internal flash in the 7D, but the power is stronger, since the guide number for the 580 EX II in this case is 28, compared to 12 for the internal flash.
                If you are using the internal flash in combination with the external one, the guide number for the internal flash could be as low as 4.
                If manual flash power is used, instead of E-TTl II, only items #12-#15 in the list in this post are executed. The required power isn't computed by the camera either, but set by the user.
                sigpic

                ym: dj.snookz isnookz@mac.com ping: snookz

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                • #9
                  betul, ga kliatan.. tapi inget.. itu harus dengan setingan di atas GN pop up flashnya.. misal dengan speed tinggi atau bukaan kecil..

                  klo kita butuh slow speed? atau harus motret benda yg bisa mantul/iluminate?
                  hehehe itu ga enaknya snookz, krn walau kita sett blitz pop up kita, tetep aj refleksinya kan ktangkep
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bhisma adinaya View Post
                    betul, ga kliatan.. tapi inget.. itu harus dengan setingan di atas GN pop up flashnya.. misal dengan speed tinggi atau bukaan kecil..

                    klo kita butuh slow speed? atau harus motret benda yg bisa mantul/iluminate?
                    hehehe itu ga enaknya snookz, krn walau kita sett blitz pop up kita, tetep aj refleksinya kan ktangkep
                    yoiaaa....
                    makanya untuk product aku lebih prefer continuous light murah meriah ku....
                    :001_tt2::001_tt2:
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                    ym: dj.snookz isnookz@mac.com ping: snookz

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snookz View Post
                      yoiaaa....
                      makanya untuk product aku lebih prefer continuous light murah meriah ku....
                      :001_tt2::001_tt2:
                      hahahaha.. untuk produk, dari kardus TV aj, kanan kirinya dibolongin, trus ditambal kertas kalkir/manila putih.. pasang backdrop skalian d.. nah untuk lampu bisa pake continous kanan kiri hehehe.. klo benda yg mau difoto reflektif, kasih jendela intip aj depannya hehehehe
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                      • #12


                        ini sett lampunya



                        background yg dipake warna hitam,
                        kekuatan flash (gw lupa) tp di sett ke yg agak minim, knp? karna flas dipakaikan snoot yg berfungsi menembakan cahaya langsung terarah dan terpusat pada bagian obyek, cara ini juga dipakai untuk menghindari flare karena kamera menghadap pada arah datangnya cahaya..

                        sett kamera:
                        speed 1/125
                        f8 --> knp 8? begini.. ketika kita seting kamera kita pada bukaan yg makin kecil 11, 22 dst efeknya adalah titik fokus akan smakin lebar, kalau smakin lebar brarti background pun akan smakin fokus dan terlihatlah tekstur (kain, kertas, dll) dari background
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                        • #13
                          upload lagi ah, masih dalam tema STROBIST.. memberdayakan pacar sndiri hehehehehe daripada ribet2 nyari model






                          INI SETTING nya



                          BLITZ: 2 buah--> yang satu dipasang payung, yang satu menggunakan gel biru dan omni bounce
                          - blitz dengan payung: berguna untuk difusi cahaya dan mereduce cahaya sehingga terlihat lebih soft pada kulit
                          - blitz dengan gel warna dan omnibounce: berguna untuk mengubah warna cahaya dan omni berguna untuk membuat cahaya lebih soft dan berpendar lebih rata

                          KAMERA:
                          - D300 dengan lensa 18-105 VR
                          - Manual mode: f8 speed 1/125

                          REFLECTOR:
                          berguna untuk memantulkan cahaya dari blitz dengan payung, untuk FILL IN pada area shadow
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                          • #14






                            ini setingnya..



                            msh dengan sett yg sama

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                            • #15
                              isenk:

                              wow, experimen yg bagus :D.. aq jarang experimen.. : p
                              sedikit sharing:


                              foto kiri pake 3 flash:
                              1 with payung dari kanan atas
                              1 dari belakang bounce ke atas untuk fill dikit
                              1 dari kanan sedikit belakang model
                              foto kanan pake 4 flash:
                              1 with payung dari kanan atas
                              1 dari kanan untuk bg
                              2 dari kiri (luar jendela)1 posisi untuk model dan 1 posisi untuk bg..

                              belum buat tabelnya : p
                              d300s
                              18-50 2.8 sigma
                              2x sb26
                              2x sb28
                              yongnuo trigger

                              Dulu pernah pake sistem cls, sb800-sb600.. tp karena sb800 kepalingan akhirnya beli yg versi sb26/8 (ngirit, beli sb800 bisa daper 2x sb26 sama trigger).
                              Memang rada repot harus setting ke tiap lampu. Tapi tiap lampunya bisa disetting beda2.. apalagi kalo sampe 5/6 flash dengan setting beda2..

                              Dan kalau pake trigger flash yang ditaro di dalem ruangan sedangkan kita jauh di luar ruangan tetep bisa kepincet flashnya. imho kalo pake cls kehalang tembok suka susah. (apa gw naronya salah ya)

                              Tp kalo lg urgent bisa cls an juga sama sb-600 nya :D heheh...
                              ---------------------------------------
                              mac | canon | panasonic

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